[Pease Porridge]
Bob's Mailbox
Bob Pease
ED Online ID #21151
May 21, 2009
Copyright © 2006 Penton Media, Inc., All rights reserved. Printing of this document is for personal use only.
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HI BOB,
Regarding quad op amps (“What’s All
This ‘Free Amplifier’ Stuff, Anyhow?”), I thought I’d
pass on this tidbit from my early days in the
late 1970s. I was working at an industrial
controls company on the east coast named
Leeds & Northrup Co. (now defunct).
(Yeah, I have collaborated with L&N. /rap)
At that time, they were producing a
new line of industrial controllers with
LED displays, rather than the older analog
meter movements, to show process
deviation from set-point. A stack of
RC4136 “quad 741” op amps was used
to drive the LED bargraph display. There
were two display modes: single dot and
bargraph. (That sounds like a Raytheon
part number. /rap)
During burn-in, many of the bargraph
displays would go into full-scale oscillation
at a rate of about 2 to 3 seconds per
cycle. Failure analysis showed that the current
required for an RC4136 to drive four
LEDs was enough to melt the VSS bond
wire inside the package, but not enough to
destroy the devICe. The oscillation was the
bond wire expanding, detaching, cooling,
and re-contacting the bond pads.
(Wild! Was the amplifier in an extremely
high-gain circuit? And, was it driving an
excessive load? I know a 741 can typICally
drive a lot more than it’s rated to, but as you
discovered, you can get in trouble doing
this. /rap)
These devICes would oscillate in this
fashion during days of burn-in and still
function just fine in single-dot mode when
pulled out for final test! RAY BOWEN
HELLO RAY,
Wow, what a great story! RAP
BOB,
In looking over the schematIC for the
fancy PNP, I could not help but wonder
about something (“What’s All This PNP
Stuff, Anyhow?”). The current sources for sink and
source are about 1 mA, while the current
that is to be reflected into the output is 0.1
mA to 10 mA. Any mismatch in the sink,
and source currents are going to show up
in the output. (Yeah, but these currents are
going to match well. That’s why I defined
those current reflectors. /rap)
I might be missing something. If the base
of the PNP is a low impedance point (Isn’t
it a negative impedance point? So when
current is dumped into it, it comes out the
NPN’s collector and comes back out the
PNP’s collector. /rap), you have a common
base transistor configuration. And in this,
the current gain is about 1. There is voltage
gain, but the Miller C is removed as it is
shunted to ground and does not reflect the
driving circuit and cause slow down.
JIM P.
HELLO, JIM
You are a DAC man. Don’t be bamboozled
by “paralysis by analysis.” It works!
You could even build it in nine minutes.
RAP
SIR,
The Early effect is quite confusing to
me. Most textbooks talk about the Early
effect only in the CE configuration and
do not give finer details. Why are we not
observing the Early effect in the CB output
characteristICs? (Because it is beta times
smaller in the grounded base, so it is just
less notICeable. Note: the Early effect in
grounded-base is largely invariant of beta.
In grounded-emitter, it is largely proportional
to the beta. /rap)
Is it because we keep base emitter voltage
constant to get constant IE (No. If VBE
were kept fixed, the ZOUT would get lousy
again. /rap), unlike in CE where we need
constant IB? As in CE, IC will increase
due to a decrease in recombination at the
base and due to an increase in VBE (IC = IS
eVBE/VT) but more due to the latter, and
in CB, only recombination affects IC. (Not
really. You throw that around as if IS were
a constant. It is not. See what I said about
IS in “What’s All This VBE Stuff, Anyhow?
Part 1,” at www.national.com/rap/Story/vbe.html, and in Part 2, June 21, 2007; ED
Online 15690. /rap)
If so, then the change in IC that we
observe on the output characteristICs shows
the effect of base emitter voltage on collector
current than that of base-width modulation.
Is there a way to find the Early effect
in CB configuration experimentally (measure
hrb and measure hre; measure ZOUT
with fixed base drive, or fixed VBE)? (Why
is the output impedance at the collector
about the same when IB is held constant or
when VBE is held constant? Think about
it. /rap)
I read somewhere that since the base is
very thin when further reduction happens
due to the Early effect, the injection of carriers
from base to emitter also decreases.
So, this also should decrease the base current.
(I don’t think there is anything there
to see. When you measure IB, you can’t
tell if it is from the injection or from the
recombination. /rap) Exactly what things
get changed due to the base-width modulation?
(Many things. /rap) Please help.
GANESH NITHYANADAM
HELLO, GANESH,
Please, go measure some transistors.
Help yourself. RAP
Comments invited! czar44@me.com —or:
R.A. Pease, 682 Miramar Avenue
San Francisco, Ca 94112-1232
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